You Are There: Conley Takes Stand Saturday, Atlanta Georgian, August 1st, 1913

Conley Takes Stand Saturday

Atlanta Georgian
August 1st, 1913

Lawyers Wrangle Over Frank's Nervousness

DORSEY WINS POINT AS ROSSER BATTLES TO DEFEND ACCUSED

Jim Conley, accuser of Leo Frank, will take the stand Saturday morning, according to all indications Friday, to repeat the remarkable story he told concerning his part in the disposition of the body of Mary Phagan and undergo the merciless grilling of the defense.

Solicitor General Dorsey said that he expected to have his case completed by Saturday night and police, believing he will call the negro to-morrow, had him shaved and cleaned up and in readiness for his appearance.

Regardless of statements by defense and State, it is generally conceded that the Frank trial will reach its crux in Conley's appearance, and that on his story and whether it stands up or not under the first of the defense, will rest the outcome of the trial.

Objections by Attorney Hooper, assistant to Solicitor Dorsey, to questions put to N. V. Darley by Attorney Arnold about the contents of the financial sheet made out by Leo Frank developed the fact that the defense would introduce evidence in rebuttal.

Defense to Introduce Evidence.

"We will introduce this sheet and plenty of other evidence," said Mr. Arnold. "You need not worry about that."

"That is just what I was after," remarked Mr. Hooper, aside. "I wanted to find out whether the defense intended to introduce evidence."

It had been rumored around the courthouse that the defense might rest its case at the completion of the submission of evidence by the State. Mr. Arnold's statement is taken to mean that Leo Frank himself will be placed on the stand.

Luther Z. Rosser, chief of counsel for Frank, declared Friday that the ruling of Judge Roan against the admissibility of the evidence that persons other than Frank were nervous and excited the Sunday morning after the crime might vitiate the entire trial.

He intimated strongly after Judge Roan refused to change his ruling that a new trial would be asked on a writ of error in the event of Frank's conviction.

Arnold, in arguing for the admission of Darley's testimony that other persons at the factory, as well as Frank, were nervous and distrait, got before the jury that it was hardly to be wondered at that Frank, aroused from his bed and told of a shocking crime at his factory, should be agitated, pale and nervous.

Calls Barrett Monomaniac.

Referring to the discoveries of R. P. Barrett, Arnold came out boldly and declared that it was his purpose to show Barrett a monomaniac who continually was turning up evidence, and who very likely was hunting for the rewards offered.

Darley testified that scores of pay envelopes like the one found by Mary Phagan's machine were scattered about the factory every week, and that it was most common to find them in any part of the factory. He said that he looked over the time tape with Leo Frank Sunday morning and made the same error that Frank did, believing at the time that the punches had been made correctly. The tape was shown to the jury to prove how the mistake might have been made.

Judge Roan ruled out testimony as to the conduct and appearance of other persons than Frank at the factory Sunday morning.

The defense played one of its strong cards in behalf of Leo M. Frank when it secured from Darley, manufacturing head of the plant and State's witness, evidence that the prisoner performed three hours of the most intricate mathematical work just after the time the prosecution claims Mary Phagan was slain.

This, the defense brought out, required an exceedingly clear mind.

Frank Nervous After Crime.

Darley also gave startling testimony as to Frank's nervous and upset condition on the two days following the murder of Mary Phagan.

The statements of Darley came as a complete surprise. The nature of the testimony had been carefully guarded by the Solicitor.

Darley declared that he and Frank arrived at the factory at about the same time Sunday morning, April 27, and that at first noticed Frank's nervousness when he saw the factory superintendent's hand tremble violently when he grasped the elevator rope to run the elevator down into the basement.

"When we got down to the basement," continued Darley, "and Frank started to nail up the back door, I saw that his hands were trembling and I took the hammer and nailed up the door myself, because I thought I could do it better than he could."

Darley also told that when he rode with Frank to the police station Monday, Frank sat on his knee.

"I could perceive that his whole body was trembling and shaking," said Darley. "I noticed it all of the way to the station house."

Club Not Found in Clean-Up.

Solicitor Dorsey asked Darley about a general clean-up ordered by a general insurance inspector who visited the factory April 28. Darley replied that the factory had been cleaned on the first and second floors on or before May 3.

Dorsey then called for the bloody club that was said to have been found on the first floor May 15 near where Jim Conley was sitting. Dorsey threw it down with a clatter by the chair of the witness.

"Was any club of this sort turned up during the cleaning process?" shouted Dorsey.

"No," the witness replied.

"And was not this a thorough cleaning?" the Solicitor asked.

"It was a general cleaning," replied Darley.

Frank Explains Nervousness.

Darley said that Frank later explained his nervousness of Sunday by saying that he had not had any breakfast and that he had just looked upon the body of the dead girl at the morgue. The witness added that Frank did not appear completely upset Monday, as he was able to transact a number of business affairs.

Darley, in spite of his testimony, which will be interpreted by the State as incriminating against Frank, probably was as valuable a witness for the defense as he was for the prosecution. It was under the skillful questioning of Attorney Reuben Arnold, who had begun to take a more active part in the cross-examinations than he had at first, that Darley told of the intricate work that Frank did on the afternoon of April 26 after the time the State claims that Frank murdered the Phagan girl.

Mrs. Arthur White, wife of one of the employees of the National Pencil Factory, who declared she saw a negro hiding behind some boxes on the first floor of the plant on the day Mary Phagan was killed, was the first witness called Friday.

The State with her testimony began […]

CONLEY, SWEEPER, LIKELY TO BE LAST WITNESS FOR STATE

Frank Startled When Woman Came Upon Him Suddenly in His Office

BARRING OF TESTIMONY ON NERVOUSNESS OF FACTORY EMPLOYEES HIT BY ROSSER

[…] to pave the way for the appearance of Conley, who, it is believed, would be the last witness to be called by Solicitor Dorsey, as he would be the most spectacular.

The first witness said her husband had been working at the National Pencil plant about two years.

Tells of Going to Factory.

Q. What is your husband's name?—A. John Arthur White.

Q. Where does he work?—A. At the National Pencil Factory. He has worked there about two years.

Q. Where was he April 26?—A. At the pencil factory.

Q. Did you go to the pencil factory that day?—A. Yes; about 11 o'clock.

Q. Did you see Frank?—A. Yes; he was in his outside office.

Q. What did you say to him?—A. I told him I wanted to see Mr. White.

Q. What did he say?—A. He asked me if I was his wife. He said he thought so, as I looked like the Campbells.

Q. Did you see your husband?—A. Yes; he sent for him.

Q. Did you go upstairs at 11:30 a. m.?—A. No.

Q. What time did you leave?—A. About ten minutes to 12.

Says Frank Jumped.

Q. What time did you come back?—A. About 12:30.

Q. Whom did you see?—A. I saw Mr. Frank standing at the safe in his office.

Q. What happened then?—A. I asked him if I could see Mr. White. As I spoke to him he jumped.

Q. What did you do then?—A. I went upstairs to see Mr. White.

Q. Did you see anybody else in the office except Denham, White and Mr. Frank?—A. No, sir.

Q. Did you see anyone else as you came down?—A. I saw a negro.

Q. Where?—A. He was sitting on a box near the stairway that leads up to the second floor.

Q. Where did you see Frank the last time?—A. In his outside office.

Q. Where was your husband and Denham at work?—A. On the fourth floor.

Said She Had Better Go.

Q. What were they doing?—A. Working on a machine with a hammer.

Q. When did you first hear the hammer?—A. When I got on the fourth floor.

Q. Did you see Frank again before you left?—A. He came up on the fourth floor.

Q. Did anybody say anything about your going up to the fourth floor?—A. Yes; Frank told me to go up there.

Q. What time did Frank come to the fourth floor?—A. Some time before 1 o'clock.

Q. Where were you at 1 o'clock?—A. At McDonald's furniture store.

Q. Why did you leave before 1 o'clock?—A. Mr. Frank said, "Arthur, if your wife wants to get out before 3 o'clock she had better leave now. I will go as soon as I get my hat and coat."

Frank in Office as She Left.

Q. When you came down, did you see Mr. Frank?—A. Yes; when I went down he was sitting in his office.

Q. Did he have on his hat and coat as if he were going out?—A. No.

Q. What was he doing?—A. Writing.

Q. Could your husband and Denham see the stairway from upstairs where they were working?—A. No.

Rosser took the witness on cross-examination.

Mrs. White, you talked about this matter to Mr. Arnold and myself, didn't you? You told us you left the factory about 1 o'clock?—A. Yes.

Q. You don't mean to change your statement by saying it was ten minutes to 1 when you left, do you?—A. I can't say exactly what time it was, but I know it was about 1 o'clock.

Q. You left there the first time about 11:30 o'clock?—A. Yes.

Q. Who were there?—A. Two men, Mr. Frank and a stenographer.

Q. Your father and your brother are old employees there, aren't they?—A. Yes.

Q. By whom did he send word to your husband that you were there?—A. Miss Emma Freeman.

Q. How long was it before your husband came?—A. About five minutes.

Q. Who else was there?—A. Miss Hall, Miss Freeman, Mrs. May Barrett and her daughter.

Q. You came back to the factory about 12:30, didn't you?—A. Yes.

Q. How accurate are you about that?—A. I looked at the clock.

Q. How close were you to Mr. Frank before you spoke?—A. I was in the office door just behind him.

Q. He jumped and you thought he was surprised?—A. Yes, that's what I thought then.

Q. When he told your husband he was going to leave, he said you had better go pretty soon?—A. He said I had better go now.

Q. You did wait a few minutes?—A. Yes.

Q. Just where did you see the darky as you went out?—A. Between the stairway?—A. Five or six feet.

Q. What do you mean—between the foot of the stairway and the door?—A. Yes.

Q. How far from the foot of the stairway?—A. Five or six feet.

Mr. Rosser took a blueprint to explain the position in which she saw the negro.

Q. How long after this was it that you talked with Mr. Dorsey about seeing this negro? Wasn't it four or five days?—A. No, sir; about two weeks.

Mrs. White left the stand. Arthur White, her husband, was called, but failed to answer his name. M. V. Darley, assistant superintendent at the National Pencil Factory, was called.

Darley on Stand.

Q. What is your business?—A. Assistant superintendent at the National Pencil Factory. I have charge of the manufacturing plant.

Q. Who is your superior?—A. I considered Sig Montag.

Q. You and Frank worked together, didn't you?—A. Yes.

Q. Were you at the factory Saturday, April 26?—A. Yes.

Q. What time did you leave?—A. About 9:40.

Q. When were you there again?—A. Sunday morning about 8:10 or 8:20.

Q. Why did you go there?—A. Mrs. Frank called me.

Rosser objected.

"I object to anything Mrs. Frank said. She can't be used as a witness," he said.

"Your honor, we have already shown that Frank told his wife to call this man," said Solicitor Dorsey.

"If that's all you want to show, I withdraw my objection," said Rosser.

Q. What time did Frank call at the factory?—A. Shortly after I did.

Q. Did you notice anything unusual about Frank?—A. When he reached out his hand to start the elevator, it was trembling. And again when he went to nail up the back door, he was so nervous he couldn't do it, and I did it for him.

Said Body Made Him Nervous.

Q. What, if anything, did Frank say?—A. I don't remember. He said something about having on a new suit of clothes, or something.

Q. Did he say anything about not having breakfast?—A. He said he hadn't had his breakfast and wanted a cup of coffee.

Q. Did he say anything about being nervous?—A. Yes; he said they took him by Bloomfield's and into a dark room, where they turned on the light suddenly and he saw the girl. He said it made him nervous.

Q. Were you there when Newt Lee was?—A. Yes.

Q. Was Lee nervous?—A. No; he was composed.

Q. Did Frank say anything about the murder?—A. He was under the impression the murder occurred in the basement.

Q. Did he say anything about the lock and staple?—A. Yes; he said it looked like it was mighty easily pulled.

Staple Easily Pulled.

Q. Did you observe anything about the staple?—A. Yes; it looked as if it had been taken out easily.

Q. Did you see Frank again?—A. Yes, the following day.

Q. Did he say anything about his nervousness of the day before?—A. Yes; he said something, but I have forgotten.

"Your honor," said Dorsey, "I would like to refresh the witness' memory by reading his previous statement."

"You can only show it to him," answered Judge Roan.

Dorsey showed Darley the affidavit.

Q. Just tell everything you heard Frank say about the murder.—A. I don't remember.

"Your honor, I would like to read this," said Dorsey.

Forgets Vital Evidence.

Rosser and Arnold objected.

"He will have to make the usual showing that he was entrapped your honor," said Arnold.

"He is trying ot [sic] bring in evidence from the outside," said Rosser.

"You can't read it, Mr. Dorsey," said Judge Roan.

"My friend Dorsey would show anything, your honor," said Rosser. "Nothing's too good for him."

Q. State to the jury how much of Frank's body was nervous?—A. That is a pretty hard question.

"Look at this," said Dorsey, showing him an affidavit.

"I said there he was shaking all over," said the witness.

Rosser objected.

Judge Roan asked the witness if he was making that statement now.

Darley's Replies Guarded.

"Judge, that's a very hard question for me," answered Darley. "He reached up to get the ropes, and his hands were shaking very much."

Darley appeared very reluctant to answer any question that might incriminate Frank.

Q. Who nailed up the back door of the basement?—A. I did.

Q. Was Frank able to do it?—A. He was able to do it, I think, but he was nervous.

Q. How did Frank's face appear on the second floor?—A. It was very pale.

Q. Was he upset when you got to the factory?

Rosser objected, but was overruled.

A. I can't say he was completely upset.

"Now, look here," said Dorsey, walking toward the witness with his affidavit.

"Your honor," interrupted Rosser, "he can't speak to the witness in that nasal tone. It is his witness. He can't cross-question him."

"That's right," ruled the judge.

"But," said Mr. Rosser, "your Honor has not been enforcing that ruling."

"I am going to enforce it," replied Judge Roan.

"That's [several words illegible] you to do now," returned Mr. Rosser.

Mr. Dorsey put his question again.

A. He was somewhat upset, but did some things around the factory that he could not have done if he had been completely upset.

State Wins Clash.

Q. Was he done up?

"I object," broke in Mr. Arnold. "He may mean that he was dead by ‘done up'."

"Leave it to the jury to decide what is meant by ‘done up'." said Dorsey.

"It isn't for you to decide what is to go before the jury," retorted Rosser. "That is for the judge."

Judge Roan ruled the question was admissible.

A. He was partially done up but not completely.

Q. Why do you say that?—A. He did some things he could not have done if he had been wholly done up."

Q. Who was with yo on the way to the police station?—A. I got in an automobile. I afterward learned that it was run by "Boots" Rogers. Mr. Frank sat on my knee.

Q. What was his condition?—A. He was trembling all over.

Q. To what extent?—A. He was sitting on my knee and I could feel his body shaking.

Q. What was the condition of Newt Lee?

"I object," said Rosser. "I have been objecting to this line of testimony all along. If your Honor permits this question to be asked, I want to be recorded as protesting."

"Do you insist on the question?" asked Judge Roan of Solicitor Dorsey.

Dorsey and Hooper conferred.

"I am willing to strike out all reference, to Newt Lee's condition," said Dorsey.

Attorneys Exchange Courtesies.

"I am glad it has finally dawned on my brothers that these questions are illegal," said Rosser. "I have been trying to get them to see and I am glad to say the light finally has dawned upon them."

"Your Honor," interrupted Hooper, "I object to Mr. Rosser's statement, about how long it takes anything to soak into my head. A reference to Newt Lee's attitude was made the other day. We see the object of these objections is to lead into a large field of investigation. We want to strike it all out."

Dorsey continued questioning the witness.

Q. Did you attend to any business Monday?—A. There wasn't much work to do.

Q. Did you see the financial sheet Monday?—A. Yes.

Q. Did Frank say anything about the financial sheet Monday?—A. Yes, Mr. Frank called my attention to it.

Q. What did he say, and at what time?—A. I don't recall the conversation, but it was about 9 o'clock.

Q. Did Gantt ever come to the factory after he was discharged?—A. Yes.

Ordered Factory Clean.

Q. Did Frank say anything about it?—A. I don't recall.

Q. Did Mr. Haas, the insurance man, come to the factory Monday or Tuesday?—A. He did.

Q. What did he do?—A. He ordered us to clean up the factory in a general way.

Q. What time did you clean up the main floor?—A. May 3.

Q. Did you know anything about the finding of this club? (The witness was handed a heavy stick.)—A. No.

Q. Do you know whether it was found before or after the cleaning up?—A. Afterward—about May 15.

Arnold here took up the cross-examination.

Q. Did you see any spots on the floor?—A. Yes, in the dressing room.

Q. Who showed them to you?—A. Quinn.

Calls Barrett a "Columbus."

Q. Where was the hair found?—A. On the handle of the lathe.

Q. How was it?—A. Wound around the lathe.

Q. Did Mr. Barrett find it?—A. Yes.

Q. How many strands of hair were there?—A. Not over six.

Q. Barrett has been doing most of the discovering around there, hasn't he?

"I object," said Dorsey. "The question is immaterial."
"I want to show that this man Barrett was a monomaniac," said Arnold.

Judge Roan ruled: "You can show that this man was more than ordinarily interested."

Q. Do you recall Barrett stating he was working for a reward?—A. I don't recall.

Dorsey: "I object."

Judge Roan ruled: "I have ruled that he can show that to prove interest."

"I want to show that his man was a regular Christopher Columbus."

Q. Do you know who Barrett made this statement to?—A. No.

Q. Is this a pay envelope?—A. Yes.

Pay Envelopes Common.

Q. Are they thrown all over the factory?—A. Yes. We have a rule that if there is any mistake in the pay roll it had to be reported before the employee left.

Q. They are very common in the metal room?—Yes.

Q. Were you present Sunday morning when Frank took out the time slip?—A. Yes.

Q. Did you see him run his finger down the time slip?—A. Yes. He ran his finger down the number side. I was looking over his shoulder.

Q. Is there a row of figures down the number side?—A. Yes.

Q. Did Frank say anything?—A. Yes. He said they were all punched and I verified it.

Q. How did you do it?—A. Just lo[o]king at the numbers. We would have noticed a skip in the time.

Juror Asks Question.

Attorney Arnold addressed the court:

"Your honor, a juror wants to ask a question, but Mr. Hooper objects."

"I don't object to his asking the question, but I do object to Mr. Arnold giving the answer," said Mr. Hooper.

Juror Marcellus Johemming asked Darley to explain the time clock system, which Darley did.

Arnold took up the financial sheet.

Q. What did Frank say about the financial sheet?

"I object," said Hooper. "He can ask him about the sheet, provided it is later put in evidence."

"We will put it in all right," said Arnold, "and plenty of other evidence. You need not worry about that."

Q. When was the financial sheet made up?—A. Saturday afternoon.

Q. You were interested?—A. Yes, it was my duty to see it. It dealt with the cost of production.

Q. What time was it made up—that is, what day of the week did it show last?—A. Thursday.

Financial Sheet Introduced.

Q. Who makes it up now?—A. One has not been made out since Mr. Frank left?

Q. How long did it usually take him to make it out?—A. Always from about 2:30 or 3 until 5 o'clock.

Q. Look at this and tell me if this is the sheet you found on his desk Sunday morning?—A. Yes.

Q. How does it compare with his regular handwriting?

Dorsey objected.

"I object, your honor," he said. "The writing is the best evidence."

Q. I want to ask you are you familiar with Mr. Frank's writing?—A. Yes, I have been seeing it about five years.

Q. Now, I want to ask you one question, but don't answer until we get a ruling. Does this compare favorably with all of Mr. Frank's writing?

Dorsey objected.

Ruling on Handwriting Reserved.

"The code says, your Honor, that we are entitled to the very best evidence," the Solicitor said. "This section holds that in any question of handwriting that an expert must testify, and the papers or specimen of handwriting on the day in question and on other days should be introduced. The jury might not agree with the witness that the sheet in question and other sheets […]

COST SHEET TESTIMONY OF STATE AIDS DEFENSE OF ACCUSED

Exceptionally Clear Brain Required on Such Figures, Rosser Shows

DORSEY SHAPES HIS CASE FOR CONLEY

Builds Up Preliminary to Introduction of Sweeper as Climax of Prosecution.

[..] are similar. They can be produced, and they should be."

"I will withhold my ruling until I look up some authorities," replied Judge Roan.

"I will ask the witness something else," said Arnold.

Q. What process did Frank have to go into to get at these results?—A. He had to get reports from every department, figure averages, costs, sales, profits, expense.

Figures Required Clear Head.

Q. It took a man with a good clear head to figure it?—A. Yes.

Q. What calculation was necessary to arrive at the net result?—A. The amount of rubber tips, labels, and every other little detail must be calculated.

Q. It required a large amount of calculation?—A. Yes.

Q. Sunday, were you in the factory with Frank and Detective Starnes?—A. Yes.

Q. There were forty or fifty people in the factory Sunday, were there not?—A. No, not over six or eight.

Q. Did you go into the cellar?—A. Yes.

Q. What time did you get to the factory?—A. 8:20.

Q. There was a great deal of excitement there?

Dorsey objected. "I think your Honor has already ruled on this question," said he.

Calls Nervousness Natural.

Arnold interrupted.

"Your honor, it is eminently unfair," he said. "I want to show that this young man was whisked from his home before he had his coffee, and it was nothing unusual if he was excited. Why, I lived at a boarding house with some old bachelors, and they wouldn't even talk before breakfast. When Newt Lee first saw this girl in the basement he ran like a turkey. That was one way of showing his excitement. Some men are naturally nervous; some show nervousness in reading a paper or making a speech; some men go into battle without even flinching."

Judge Roan ruled: "I think you can show the occasion."

Rosser interrupted. "Let me give you a little illustration, your honor," he said. "I was on the streets during the time of the Atlanta riots. Crowds were everywhere and everyone was excited."

Dorsey then spoke: "Only a few minutes ago, your honor, you ruled out, or we considered that you ruled out, the question of Newt Lee being nervous or composed. The only question before this jury is: Was Leo M. Frank nervous?"

Dorsey Wins Ruling.

"You can't show that anyone else was nervous," said Judge Roan.

Rosser: "If you have ruled that way, it will vitiate this trial. This jury will never know that that crowd was nervous and excited. It will never know that Starnes, sleuth that he is, trembled and was excited when he saw that lifeless corpse. That Pat Campbell, son of the Emerald Isle, started back against when he touched that icy chest. And if there is one mistake at this time it will vitiate this trial."

"If there is any doubt on your honor's mind, I want to refer you to the 81 and 85 Georgia," said Dorsey. "This proposition is simply a dragnet to go out and bring in everyone when Leo Frank is the only one we are concerned with here."

The objection was sustained.

Attorney Arnold declared that he only wanted those around Frank in the factory described. Dorsey objected, and the objection was sustained.

Attorney Arnold then asked that the objection of the defense be recorded.

Blood Spots Common.

Q. How long have you been working at the factory where there were women…Mr. Darley?—A. 24 years.

Q. Isn't it a common thing to find bloodspots around the women's dressing room?—A. Yes.

Q. Did you ever see any blood spots around the dressing room in this factory?—A. (Darley hesitated). Yes, sir, I have.

Q. What color was the suit Mr. Frank had on Saturday?—A. Brown.

Q. What color suit did he wear on Sunday?—A. Blue.

Q. What color on Monday?—A. The same one he wore on Saturday.

Q. Did you see any splotches on it?—A. No.

Q. Did you see any scratches on Frank's face or hands when he came to the factory Sunday?—A. No, I did not.

Q. What time did Frank leave the factory Saturday morning?—A. About 9:40 o'clock. He started toward Montag's.

Q. You never saw him any more until Sunday?—A. No.

Elevator Found Unlocked.

Q. In what condition did you find the elevator Sunday?—A. The lock was in place but it was unlocked.

Q. Could anybody else have gone in and run it?—A. Anybody who knows how.

Q. That elevator and motor made a good deal of noise when in operation, didn't it?—A. The saw made more noise than the motor and the elevator. When the elevator was running, the saw also was running.

Q. These cords that have been referred to; they were scattered all over the building, were they not?—A. Yes, sir. Scattered all around.

Q. Mr. Dorsey asked you something about this building being cleaned?—A. Yes, after the girl was killed.

Q. It was very dirty on the floor of the metal room, wasn't it, the dirt being about an inch thick?—A. I don't know whether it would average that thick or not, but it was very dirty.

Q. The building also was very dark, especially on dark days, wasn't it?—A. Yes.

Q. What sort of a day was it on which the little girl was killed?—A. Drizzling rain.

Q. Is anybody supposed to be in the factory on Sunday?—A. No, sir. It is supposed to locked up on Sunday.

Q. The rope on the elevator has some slack in it, hasn't it?—A. A little.

Q. Did Frank catch it with both hands, or with one hand?—A. With both hands.

Q. Frank only weighs about 125 or 130 pounds, doesn't he? He is what you would call a little fellow isn't he?—A. Yes.

Q. Is he fatter now than he was then?—A. He is about the same.

Q. How did you happen to go to Mr. Dorsey's office?—A. He ‘phoned for me.

Q. He served a subpena on you, didn't he?

Dorsey objected, but Judge Roan overruled the objection.

A. He served two subpenas on me and phoned me once.

Frank Nervous Every Day.

Q. Didn't you know those subpenas were not worth the paper they were written on?—A. I didn't then. I have heard so since.

Q. Who was at Dorsey's office?—A. Dorsey, Chief Lanford, Detectives Starnes and Campbell and a stenographer.

Q. They asked you questions, except the stenographer?—A. Yes, sometimes. One would interrupt before I could answer the question of the other.

Q. They asked you whether Mr. Frank was a nervous man, didn't they?—A. Yes.

Q. Wasn't he a hard working man who easily got nervous when things went wrong?—A. Yes, sir. If your honor will allow me, I will say that there never was a day passed that Mr. Frank didn't get nervous over something. I have seen him run his hands through his hair in an agitated way a thousand times.

Q. Mr. Frank didn't know many of the help, did he?

"I object," said Dorsey. Arnold withdrew the question.

"Did he know Mary Phagan?"

"I object to that," continued Dorsey still on his feet.

Objection was overruled.

A. Not to my knowledge, he didn't.

Q. Did you know her?—A. If I had seen her on the street I would have known she was a factory girl; but I didn't know her name.

Q. I believe you said all sorts of papers get down into that boiler room, don't they?—A. Yes.

"Give me those notes and that pay envelope," said Arnold.

Q. It was nothing unusual to find papers like these in the basement, was it?—A. I have seen such papers there.

Q. Any man who had the run of the factory, would have no trouble in getting hold of them, would he?—A. No.

Q. Was the watchman accustomed to locking the clock door?—A. Yes, but at that time the key was lost.

Q. Frank didn't unlock it Sunday morning, did he?—A. He couldn't have. The key was gone.

Q. You say you and Frank both made the mistake of thinking all the punches had been made?—A. Yes.

At this point, which was 12:15, the court adjourned until 2 o'clock.