JAMES CONLEY, Sworn In For The State, 34th To Testify

Reading Time: 83 minutes [13962 words]

JAMES CONLEY, sworn for the State.

I had a little conversation with Mr. Frank on Friday, the 25th of

April. He wanted me to come to the pencil factory that Friday morning that he had some work on the third floor he wanted me to do. All right, I will talk louder. Friday evening about tree o'clock Mr. Frank come

to the fourth floor where I was working and said he wanted me to come to

the pencil factory on Saturday morning at 8:30; that he had some work

for me to do on the second floor. I have been working for the pencil company for a little over two years. Yes, I had gone back there that way for

Mr. Frank before, when he asked me to come back. I got to the pencil

factory about 8:30 on April 26th. Mr. Frank and me got to the door at

the same time. Mr. Frank walked on the inside and I walked behind him

and he says to me, "Good morning," and I says, "Good morning, Mr.

Frank." He says, "You are a little early this morning," and I says," No,

sir, I am not early." He says, "Well, you are a little early to do what I

wanted you to do for me, I want you to watch for me like you have been

doing the rest of the Saturdays." I always stayed on the first floor like

I stayed the 26th of April and watched for Mr. Frank, while he and a

young lady would be upon the second-floor chatting, I don't know what

they were doing. He only told me they wanted to chat. When young ladies would come there, I would sit down at the first floor and watch the door for him. I couldn't exactly tell how many times I have watched the

door for him previous to April 26th, it has been several times that I

watched for him. I don't know who would be there when I watched for

him, but there would be another young man, another young lady during

the time I was at the door. A lady for him and one for Mr. Frank. Mr.

Frank was alone there once, that was Thanksgiving day. I watched for

him. Yes, a woman came there Thanksgiving day, she was a tall, heavy

built lady. I stayed down there and watched the door just as he told me

the last time, April 26th. He told me when the lady came he would stomp

and let me know that was the one and for me to lock the door. Well, after

the lady came and he stomped for me, I went and locked the door as

he said. He told me when he got through with the lady he would whistle

and for me then to go and unlock the door. That was last Thanksgiving

day, 1912. On April 26th, me and Mr. Frank met at the door. He says,

"What I want you to do is to watch for me to-day as you did other Saturdays," and I says, "All right. " I said, "Mr. Frank, I want to go to the

Capital City Laundry to see my mother," and he said, "By the time you

go to the laundry and come back to Trinity Avenue, stop at the corner of

Nelson and Forsyth Streets until I go to Montags. " I don't know exactly

what time I got to the corner of Nelson and Forsyth Streets, but I came

there sometime between 10 and 10:30. I saw Mr. Frank as he passed by

me, I was standing on the corner, he was coming up Forsyth Street toward

Nelson Street. He was going to Montag's factory. While I was there on the corner he said, "Ha, ha, you are here, is yer. " And I says,

"Yes, sir, I am right here, Mr. Frank. " He says, "Well, wait until I go

to Mr. Sig's, I won't be very long, I'll be right back. " I says, "All right, Mr. Frank, I'll be right here. " I don't know how long he stayed at Montag's. He didn't say anything when he came back from Montag's, but

told me to come on. Mr. Frank came out Nelson Street and down Forsyth

Street toward the pencil factory and I followed right behind. As

we passed up there the grocery store, Albertson Brothers, a young man

was up there with a paper sack getting some stuff out of a box on the

sidewalk, and he had his little baby standing by the side of him, and just

as Mr. Frank passed by him, I was a little behind Mr. Frank, and Mr.

Frank said something to me, and by him looking back at me and saying

something to me, he hit up against the man's baby, and the man turned

around and looked to see who it was, and he looked directly in my face,

but I never did catch the idea what Mr. Frank said. Mr. Frank stopped

at Curtis' Drug Store, corner Mitchell and Forsyth Streets, went into the

soda fountain. He came out and went straight on to the factory, me right

behind him. When we got to the factory we both went on the inside, and

Mr. Frank stopped me at the door and when he stopped me at the door he

put his hand on the door and turned the door and says: "You see, you

turn the knob just like this and there can't nobody come in from the outside," and I says, "All right," and I walked back to a little box back

there by the trash barrel. He told me to push the box up against the trash

barrel and sit on it, and he says. "Now, there will be a young lady up

here after awhile, and me and her are going to chat a little," and he says,

"Now, when the lady comes, I will stomp like I did before," and he says,

"That will be the lady, and you go and shut the door," and I says, "All

right, sir. " And he says, "Now when I whistle I will be through, so you

can go and unlock the door and you come upstairs to my office then like

you were going to borrow some money for me and that will give the

young lady time to get out. " I says, "All right, I will do just as you

say," and I did as he said. Mr. Frank hit me a little blow on my chest

and says, "Now, whatever you do, don't let Mr. Darley see you. " I says,

"All right, I won't let him see me. " Then Mr. Frank went upstairs and

he said, "Remember to keep your eyes open," and I says, "All right, I

will, Mr. Frank. " And I sat there on the box and that was the last I seen

of Mr. Frank until up in the day sometime. The first person I saw that

morning after I got in there was Mr. Darley, he went upstairs. The next

person was Miss Mattie Smith, she went on upstairs, then I saw her come

down from upstairs. Miss Mattie walked to the door and stopped, and

Mr. Darley comes on down to the door where Miss Mattie was, and he

says," Don't you worry, I will see that you get that next Saturday. " And

Miss Mattie came on out and went up Alabama Street and Mr. Darley

went back upstairs. Seemed like Miss Mattie was crying, she was wiping

her eyes when she was standing down there. This was before I went to

Nelson and Forsyth Streets. After we got back from Montag Brothers,

the first person I saw come along was a lady that worked on the fourth

floor, I don't know her name. She went on up the steps. The next person

that came along was the negro drayman, he went on upstairs. He

was a peg-legged fellow, real dark. The next I saw this negro and Mr.

Holloway coming back down the steps. Mr. Holloway was putting on

his glasses and had a bill in his hands, and he went out towards the wagon

on the sidewalk, then Mr. Holloway came back up the steps, then after

Mr. Darley came down and left, Mr. Holloway came down and left. Then

this lady that worked on the fourth floor came down and left. The next

person I saw coming there was Mr. Quinn. He went upstairs, stayed

a little while and then came down. The next person that I saw was Miss Mary Perkins, that's what I call her, this lady that is dead, I

don't know her name. After she went upstairs I heard her footsteps going

towards the office and after she went in the office, I heard two people

walking out of the office and going like they were coming down the steps,

but they didn't come down the steps, they went back towards the metal

department. After they went back there, I heard the lady scream, then

I didn't hear no more, and the next person I saw coming in there was

Miss Monteen Stover. She had on a pair of tennis shoes and a rain coat.

She stayed there a pretty good while, it wasn't so very long either. She

came back down the steps and left. After she came back down the steps

and left, I heard somebody from the metal department come running back

there upstairs, on their tiptoes, then I heard somebody tiptoeing back

towards the metal department. After that I kind of dozed off and went

to sleep. Next thing I knew Mr. Frank was up over my head stamping

and then I went and locked the door, and sat on the box a little while, and

the next thing I heard was Mr. Frank whistling. I don't know how many

minutes it was after that I heard him whistle. When I heard him whistling

I went and unlocked the door just like he said, and went on up the

steps. Mr. Frank was standing up there at the top of the steps and shivering and trembling and rubbing his hands like this. He had a little rope

in his hands and a long wide piece of cord. His eyes were large and they

looked right funny. He looked funny out of his eyes. His face was red.

Yes, he had a cord in his hands just like this here cord. After I got up to

the top of the steps, he asked me," Did you see that little girl who passed

here just a while ago?" and I told him I saw one come along there and

she come back again, and then I saw another one come along there and

she hasn't come back down, and he says, "Well, that one you say didn't

come back down, she came into my office awhile ago and wanted to know something about her work in my office and I went back there to see if the little girl's work had come, and I wanted to be with the little girl, and she refused me, and I struck her and I guess I struck her too hard and she fell and hit her head against something, and I don't know how bad she got hurt. Of course you know I ain't built like other men. The reason he said that was, I had seen him in a position I haven't seen any other man that has got children. I have seen him in the office two or three times before Thanksgiving and a lady was in his office, and she was sitting down in a chair (and she had her clothes up to here, and he was down on his knees, and she had her hands on Mr. Frank. I have seen him another

time there in the packing room with a young lady lying on the table, she

was on the edge of the table when I saw her. He asked me if I wouldn't

go back there and bring her up so that he could put her somewhere, and

he said to hurry, that there would be money in it for me. When I came

back there, I found the lady lying flat of her back with a rope around her

neck. The cloth was also tied around her neck and part of it was under

her head like to catch blood. I noticed the clock after I went back there

and found the lady was dead and came back and told him. The clock

was four minutes to one. She was dead when I went back there and I

came back and told Mr. Frank the girl was dead and he said "Sh-Sh!"

He told me to go back there by the cotton box, get a piece of cloth, put it

around her and bring her up. I didn't hear what Mr. Frank said, and I

came on up there to hear what he said. He was standing on the top of

the steps, like he was going down the steps, and while I was back in the

metal department I didn't understand what he said, and I came on back

there to understand what he did say, and he said to go and get a piece of cloth to put around her, and I went and looked around the cotton box and got a piece of cloth and went back there. The girl was lying flat on her back and her hands were out this way. I put both of her hands down

easily, and rolled her up in the cloth and taken the cloth and tied her up,

and started to pick up her, and I looked back a little distance and saw her

hat and a piece of ribbon laying down and her slippers and I taken them

and put them all in the cloth and I ran my right arm through the cloth

and tried to bring it up on my shoulder. The cloth was tied just like a

person that was going to give out clothes on Monday, they get the clothes

and put them on- the inside of a sheet and take each corner and tie the

four corners together, and I run my right arm through the cloth after I

tied it that way and went to put it on my shoulder, and I found I couldn't

get it on my shoulder, it was heavy and I carried it on my arm the best I

could, and when I got away from the little dressing room that was in the

metal department, I let her fall, and I was scared and I kind of jumped,

and I said, 'Mr. Frank, you will have to help me with this girl, she is

heavy," and he come and caught her by the feet and I laid hold of her by

the shoulders, and when we got her that way I was backing and Mr. Frank

had her by the feet, and Mr. Frank kind of put her on me, he was nervous

and trembling, and after we got up a piece from where we got her at, he

let her feet drop and then he picked her up and we went on to the elevator,

and he pulled down on one of the cords and the elevator wouldn't go,

and he said, Wait, let me go in the office and get the key," and he went

in the office and got the key and come back and unlocked the switchboard

and the elevator went down to the basement, and we carried her out and

I opened the cloth and rolled her out there on the floor, and Mr. Frank

turned around and went on up the ladder, and I noticed her hat and slipper and piece of ribbon and I said, "Mr. Frank, what am I going to do with these things?" and he said, "Just leave them right there," and I

taken the things and pitches them over in front of the boiler, and after

Mr. Frank had left I goes on over to the elevator and he said, "Come on

up and I will catch you on the first floor," and I got on the elevator and

started it to the first floor, and Mr. Frank was running up there. He

didn't give me time to stop the elevator, he was so nervous and trembly,

and before the elevator got to the top of the first floor Mr. Frank made

the first, step onto the elevator and by the elevator being a little down

like that, he stepped down on it and hit me quite a blow right over about

my chest and that jammed me up against the elevator and when we got

near the second floor he tried to step off before it got to the floor and his

foot caught on the second floor as he was stepping off and that made him

stumble and he fell back sort of against me, and he goes on and takes the

keys back to his office and leaves the box unlocked. I followed him into

his private office and I sat down and he commenced to rubbing his hands

and began to rub back his hair and after awhile he got up and said,

"Jim," and I didn't say nothing, and all at once he happened to look out

of the door and there was somebody coming, and he said, " My God, here

is Emma Clarke and Corinthia Hall," and he said "Come over here Jim,

I have got to put you in this wardrobe, and he put me in this wardrobe,

and I stayed there a good while and they come in there and I heard them

go out, and Mr. Frank come there and said, "You are in a tight place,"

and I said "Yes," and he said "You done very well. " So after they went

out and he had stepped in the hall and had come back he let me out of the

wardrobe, and he said "You sit down," and I went and sat down, and

Mr. Frank sat down. But the chair he had was too little for him or too

big for him or it wasn't far enough back or something. He reached on the table to get a box of cigarettes and a box of matches, and he takes a cigarette and a match and hands me the box of cigarettes and I lit one and went to smoking and I handed him back the box of cigarettes, and he put it back in his pocket and then he took them out again and said, "You can have these," and I put them in my pocket, and then he said, "Can you

write?" and I said, "Yes, sir, a little bit," and he taken his pencil to fix

up some notes. I was willing to do anything to help Mr. Frank because

he was a white man and my superintendent, and he sat down and I sat

down at the table and Mr. Frank dictated the notes to me. Whatever it

was it didn't seem to suit him, and he told me to turn over and write

again, and I turned the paper and wrote again, and when I done that he

told me to turn over again and I turned over again and wrote on the next

page there, and he looked at that and kind of liked it and he said that was

all right. Then he reached over and got another piece of paper, a green

piece, and told me what to write. He took it and laid it on his desk and

looked at me smiling and rubbing his hands, and then he pulled out a

nice little roll of greenbacks, and he said, "Here is $200," and I taken

the money and looked at it a little bit and I said, "Mr. Frank, don't you

pay another dollar for that watchman, because I will pay him myself,"

and he said, "All right, I don't see what you want to buy a watch for

either, that big fat wife of mine wanted me to buy an automobile and I

wouldn't do it. " And after awhile Mr. Frank looked at me and said,

"You go down there in the basement and you take a lot of trash and burn

that package that's in front of the furnace," and I told him all right. But

I was afraid to go down there by myself, and Mr. Frank wouldn't go down

there with me. He said, "There's no need of my going down there," and

I said, "Mr. Frank, you are a white man and you done it, and I am not

going down there and burn that myself. " He looked at me then kind of frightened and he said "Let me see that money" and he took the money back and put it back in his pocket, and I said, "Is this the way you do things?" and he said, "You keep your mouth shut, that is all right. "

And Mr. Frank turned around in his chair and looked at the money and

he looked back at me and folded his hands and looked up and said, "Why

should I hang? I have wealthy people in Brooklyn," and he looked down

when he said that, and I looked up at him, and he was looking up at the

ceiling, and I said," Mr. Frank what about me?" and he said, " That's all

right, don't you worry about this thing, you just come back to work Monday

like you don't know anything, and keep your mouth shut, if you get

caught I will get you out on bond and send you away," and he said,

"Can you come back this evening and do it?" and I said "Yes, that I was

coming to get my money. " He said, "Well, I am going home to get dinner

and you come back here in about forty minutes and I will fix the

money," and I said, "How will I get in?" and he said, "There will be a

place for you to get in all right, but if you are not coming back let me

know, and I will take those things and put them down with the body,"

and I said, "All right, I will be back in about forty minutes. " Then I

went down over to the beer saloon across the street and I took the cigarettes out of the box and there was some money in there and I took that out and there was two paper dollar bills in there and two silver quarters

and I took a drink, and then I bought me a double header and drank it

and I looked around at another colored fellow standing there and I asked

him did he want a glass of beer and he said "No," and I looked at the

clock and it said twenty minutes to two and the man in there asked me

was I going home, and I said, "Yes," and I walked south on Forsyth Street to Mitchell and Mitchell to Davis, and I said to the fellow that was

with me "I am going back to Peters Street," and a Jew across the street

that I owed a dime to called me and asked me about it and I paid him that

dime. Then I went on over to Peters Street and stayed there awhile.

Then I went home and I taken fifteen cents out of my pocket and gave a

little girl a nickle to go and get some sausage and then I gave her a

dime to go and get some wood, and she stayed so long that when she came back I said, "I will cook this sausage and eat it and go back to Mr.

Frank's," and I laid down across the bed and went to sleep, and I didn't

get up no more until half past six o'clock that night, that's the last I saw

of Mr. Frank that Saturday. I saw him next time on Tuesday on the

fourth floor when I was sweeping. He walked up and he said, "Now remember, keep your mouth shut," and I said, "All right," and he said,

"If you'd come back on Saturday and done what I told you to do with it

down there, there wouldn't have been no trouble. " This conversation

took place between ten and eleven o'clock Tuesday. Mr. Frank knew I

could write a little bit because he always gave me tablets up there at the

office so I could write down what kind of boxes we had and I would give

that to Mr. Frank down at his office and that's the way he knew I could

write. I was arrested on Thursday, May 1st, Mr. Frank told me just

what to write on those notes there. That is the same pad he told me to

write on (State's Exhibit A). The girl's body was lying somewhere

along there about Number 9 on that picture (State's Exhibit A). I dropped

her somewhere along Number 7. We got on elevator on the second floor. The

box that Mr. Frank unlocked was right around here on side of elevator.

He told me to come back in about forty minutes to do that burning. Mr.

Frank went in the office and got the key to unlock the elevator. The notes

were fixed up in Mr. Frank's private office. I never did know what became

of the notes. I left home that morning about 7 or 7:30. I noticed

the clock when I went from the factory to go to Nelson and Forsyth

Streets, the clock was in a beer saloon on the corner of Mitchell Street.

It said 9 minutes after 10. I don't know the name of the woman who was

with Mr. Frank on Thanksgiving day. I know the man's name was Mr. Dalton. When I saw Mr. Frank coming towards the factory Saturday morning he had on his raincoat and his usual suit of clothes and an umbrella. Up to Christmas I used to run the elevator, then they put me on the fourth floor to clean up. I cleaned up twice a week on the first floor

under Mr. Holloway's directions. The lady I saw in Mr. Frank's office

Thanksgiving day was a tall built lady, heavy weight, she was nice looking,

and she had on a blue looking dress with white dots in it and a grayish

looking coat with kind of tails to it. The coat was open like that and

she had on white slippers and stockings. On Thanksgiving day Mr.

Frank told me to come to his office. I have never seen any cot or bed

down in the basement. I refused to write for the police the first time. I

told them I couldn't write.

CROSS EXAMINATION.

I am 27 years old. The last job I had was working for Dr. Palmer. I

worked for him a year and a half. I worked before that for Orr Stationery

Company for three or four months. Before that I worked for S. S.

Gordon. Before that I worked for Adams Woodward and Dr. Honeywell.

Got my first job eleven years ago with Mr. S. M. Truitt. Next job

was with W. S. Coates. I can't spell his name. I can't read and write

good. I can't read the newspapers good. No, sir; I don't read the newspaper. I never do, I have tried, I found I couldn't and I quit. I can't

read a paper right through. I can't go right straight down through the

page, and that's the reason I don't read newspapers, I can't get any sense

out of them. There is some little letters like" dis" and" dat" that I can

read. The other things I don't understand. No, I can't spell "dis" and

"dat. " Yes, I can spell "school," and I can't spell "collar," I can spell

"shirts. " I can spell "shoes," and "hat. " I spell "cat" with a "k. " I

can spell "dog," and most simple little words like that. I don't know about spelling "mother. " I can spell "papa. " I spell it p-a-p-a. I can't

spell "father " or "'jury'' or "judge" or "stockings. " I never did go to

school further than the first grade. I went to school about a year. I can

spell" day," but not" daylight," I can spell" beer" but not" whiskey. "

I couldn't read the name "whiskey. " No, I can't read any letter on that

picture there (Exhibit A, State). I can't figure except with my fingers.

I know the figures as far as eight, as far as twelve. I knows more about

counting than I do about figuring. I don't know what year it was I went

to school. I worked for Truitt about two years, for Mr. Coates five years,

for Mr. Woodward and Mr. Honeywell about a year and a pressing club

about two years, Orr Stationery Company three or four months, Dr. Palmer

about a year and a half, and then I went to work for the pencil factory.

Mr. Herbert Schiff employed me at the pencil factory. Sometimes

Mr. Schiff paid me off, sometimes Mr. Gantt, sometimes Mr. Frank. I

don't remember when I saw Mr. Frank pay me off or how many times. I

drawed my money very seldom. I would always have somebody else

draw it for me. I told Mr. Holloway to let Gordon Bailey draw my money

mostly. He's the one they call "Snowball. " The reason why I didn't

draw it myself I would be owing some of the boys around the factory and

I didn't have it to pay, and I would leave the factory about half past

eleven so that I didn't have to pay it, and then I would have Snowball

draw my money for me mostly. I would see him afterwards and he would

give me the money. Sometimes I would go down through the basement

out the back way to keep away from them. The reason I let them draw

my money I owed some of them, and some of them owed me and I wanted

them to pay me first before I paid them. I didn't want to get my money

on the inside because I didn't want them to see such a little I was drawing

to what they were drawing. I wasn't drawing but $6.05. Snowball

was drawing $6.05. As to who it was I didn't want to see what I was

drawing, there was one named Walter Pride; he's been there five years.

He said he drew $12.00 a week. Then there was Joe Pride, he told me he

drew $8.40 a week. They were down in the basement and asked me how

much I was drawing. I told them it wasn't none of their business. Then

there was a fellow named Fred. I don't know how much he drew. The

next one was the fireman. I don't know how much he drew. There were

two or three others, but I didn't have no talk with them. I was just hiding

what I drew from Walter Pride. As to whether I couldn't draw my

money after Walter drew his without his knowing it, well he would always

be down there waiting for me. As to whether I couldn't get my

money without his being behind me and seeing what I got, he could see if

I tore open the envelope. I had to open it to pay them with. That's the

reason I didn't go and draw my money. I know I could have put it in my

pocket, but I couldn't tear it open unless I took it out. Yes, the reason I

didn't draw my money was because I didn't want to pay them. That's

the reason I let Snowball draw my money. They could have slipped up

behind me and looked. As to whether I couldn't walk off and keep them

from seeing it, if I didn't tear it open, then they would keep up with me

until I did. He would follow me around. No, I wasn't trying to keep out

of paying them. As to what I was trying to do, if they paid me then I

would pay them. The way I liked to settle with them, I liked to take

them to the beer saloon and buy twice as much as they get. If I was there

when they come in on me, I would say, "I owe you, let's drink it up. "

Yes, I would get out of it if I could, but if they saw me walk up and pay

them that way. I paid Walter Pride sometimes that way and sometimes the other way. I would say, "I owe you fifteen cents, I buy three beers, and you owe me fifteen cents, and that be three beers. " I say if I would be in the beer saloon when they come in there, I would do that, but if I could get out before they saw me, I would be gone. I never did know

what time the watchman come there on Saturday, or any Saturday. I

never have seen the night watchman in the factory. I have seen young

Mr. Kendrick come and get his money. He always comes somewhere

about two o'clock to get his money. I have seen him lots of times Saturday

and get his money. He always got it from Mr. Frank at two o'clock.

No, I didn't know Newt Lee. I heard them say there was a negro night

watchman, but I never did know that he was a negro. I knew they paid

employees off at twelve o'clock. I don't know what time the night watchman

would come there to work. Mr. Holloway stays until 2:30. I couldn't

tell the first time I ever watched for Mr. Frank. Sometimes during the

last summer, somewhere just about in July. As to what he said to get

me to watch for him that was on a Saturday, I would be there sweeping

and Mr. Frank come out and called me in his office. I always worked until

half past four in the evening. I would leave about half past twelve,

ring out and come back about half past one or two. Sometimes I would

ring in when I came back and sometimes I wouldn't. I ringed in every

morning when I came. I never did ring in much. I would do it after

they got after me about it. It was my habit not to do it. As to how they

would know how much to pay me if I didn't ring in, I knew they paid me

$1. 10 a day, all the time. No, they didn't pay me by the clock punches,

they paid me by the day, they paid me llc. an hour. Sometimes I would

punch the clock when I got there; that was my duty. Sometimes I was

paid when I didn't work, I don't know how that happened, but Mr. Frank would come and tell me I didn't take out that money for the time you lost last week. I don't know on what date he ever did that on. Yes, I always got my money in envelopes. As to how they would know how much to put in the envelope, when I didn't punch, they would come and ask if

I was here every time I didn't ring in, and they would ask Mr. Holloway

if I was here. If the clock didn't show any punch, they would ask me if I

was here at that hour. No they wouldn't ask how many hours I was here,

they would just ask if I was here a certain hour and then they would pay

me for the full day, whether I punched the clock or not, just so I punched

it in the morning. The lady that was with Mr. Frank the time I watched

for him some time last July was Miss Daisy Hopkins. It would always

be somewhere between 3 and 3:30. I was sweeping on the second floor.

Mr. Frank called me in his office. There was a lady in there with him.

That was Miss Daisy Hopkins. She was present when he talked to me.

He said "You go down there and see nobody don't come up and you will

have a chance to make some money. The other lady had gone out to get

that young man, Mr. Dalton. I don't know how long she had been gone.

She came back after a while with Mr. Dalton. They came upstairs to Mr.

Frank's office stayed there ten or fifteen minutes. They came back down,

they didn't go out and she says, "All right, James. " About an hour after

that Mr. Frank came down. This lady and man after she said "All

right, James" went down through the trap door into the basement.

There's a place on the first floor that leads into another department and

there's a trap door in there and a stairway that leads down in the basement,

and they pull out that trap door and go down in the basement. I

opened the trap door for them. The reason I opened the trap door because

she said she was ready, I knew where she was going because Mr.

Frank told me to watch, he told me where they were going. I don't know

how long they stayed down there. I don't know when they came back. I

watched the door all the time. Mr. Dalton gave me a quarter and went

out laughing and the lady went up the steps. Then the ladies came down

and left, and then Mr. Frank came down after they left. That was about half past four. He gave me a quarter and I left and then he left. The

next Saturday I watched was right near the same thing. It was about

the last of July or the first of August. The next Saturday I watched for

him about twelve o'clock he said "You know what you done for me last

Saturday, I want to put you wise for this Saturday. " I said, "All right,

what time?" He said, "Oh, about half past. " After Mr. Holloway left,

Miss Daisy Hopkins came on in into the office, Mr. Frank came out of the

office, popped his fingers, bowed his head and went back into the office.

I was standing there by the clock. Yes, he popped his fingers and bowed

to me, and then I went down and stood by the door. He stayed there

that time about half an hour and then the girl went out. He gave me half

a dollar this time. The next time I watched for him and Mr. Dalton too,

somewhere along in the winter time, before Thanksgiving Day, somewhere

about the last part of August. Yes, that's somewhere near the

winter. This time he spoke to me on the fourth floor in the morning.

Gordon Bailey was standing there when he spoke to me. He said, "I

want to put you wise again for today. " The lady that came in that day

was one who worked on the fourth floor; it was not Miss Daisy Hopkins.

A nice-looking lady, kind of slim. She had hair like Mr. Hooper's. She

had a green suit of clothes on. When Miss Daisy Hopkins came she had

on a black skirt and white waist the first time. I don't know the name of

that lady that works on the fourth floor. Yes, I have seen her lots of

times at the factory, but I don't know her name. She went right to Mr.

Frank's office, then I went and watched. She stayed about half an hour

and come out. Mr. Frank went out of the factory and then came back. I

stayed there and waited for him. He said, "I didn't take out that

money. " I said, "Yes, I seed you didn't. He said "That's all right, old

boy, I don't want you to say any- thing to Mr. Herbert or Mr. Darley about what's going on around here. " Next time I watched for him was Thanksgiving Day. I met Mr. Frank that morning about eight o'clock. He said "A lady will be in here in a little while, me and her are going to chat, I don't want you to do no work, I just want you to watch. " In about half

an hour the lady came. I didn't know that lady, she didn't work at the

factory. I think I saw her in the factory two or three nights before

Thanksgiving Day in Mr. Frank's office. She was a nice looking lady. I

think she had on black clothes. She was very tall, heavy built lady. After

she came in that Thanksgiving Day morning, I closed the door after

he stamped for me to close it. She went upstairs towards Mr. Frank's

office. Mr. Frank came out there and stamped, and I closed the door.

Mr. Frank said, "I'll stamp after this lady comes and you go and close

the door and turn the night latch. " That's the first time he told me about

the night lock. And he says, "If everything is all right you kick against

the door," and I kicked against the door. After an hour and a half Mr.

Frank came down and unlocked the doors and says, "Everything is all

right. " He then went and looked up the street and told the lady to come

on downstairs. After she came down, she said to Mr. Frank, "Is that

the nigger '?" and Mr. Frank said, "Yes," and she said, "Well, does he

talk much?" and he says, "No, he is the best nigger I have ever seen. "

Mr. Frank called me in the office and gave me $1. 25. The lady had on a

blue skirt with white dots in it and white slippers and white stockings

and had a gray tailor-made coat, with pieces of velvet on the edges of it.

The velvet was black and the cloth of the coat was gray. She had on a

black hat with big black feathers. I left a little before 12 o'clock. I

didn't see anybody else there that day at the office. The next time I

watched was way after Christmas, on a Saturday about the middle of January--somewhere about the first or middle. It was right after New Year, one or two, or three or four days after. It was on a Saturday. He said a young man and two ladies would be coming. That was that Saturday morning at half past seven. I was standing by the side of Gordon

Bailey when he come and told me, and he said, I could make a piece of

money off that man. Yes, Snowball could hear what he said. The man

and ladies came about half past two or three o'clock. They stayed there

about two hours. I didn't know either one of the ladies. I can't describe

what either one of them had on. The man was tall, slim built, a heavy.

man. I have seen him at the factory talking to Holloway, he didn't work

there. I have seen him often talking to Holloway, through the week. You

asked me what I did the second Saturday after I watched for him, well, I

don't remember. As to what I did the Saturday I watched for him the

second time, I disremember what I did. The Saturday after that, I think

about the first of August, I did some more watching for him. I don't remember what I did the Saturday before Thanksgiving Day. I don't remember what I did the Saturday after Thanksgiving Day. I don't remember what I did the next Saturday. I don't know, sir, what I did the

next Saturday. The next Saturday I did some watching for him. I

watched for him somewhere about the last of November after Thanksgiving

Day. No, I don't remember any of those dates. Couldn't tell you

to save my life what time I left home the first time I watched for him. I

couldn't tell you what time I got to the factory the second time I watched

for him, nor what time I left home. I don't know whether I drew my

money on the first Saturday I watched for him. I disremember whether

anybody else drew my money for me the second Saturday I watched for

him. I don't know how much I drew. I couldn't tell you whether I drew my money Thanksgiving Day or not. I don't know how much I drew. I

don't remember what time I got down or what time I left. I don't know

when I got to the factory the day before Thanksgiving, or how long I

worked there. I don't remember how many hours I worked the first Saturday I watched for him or the second, or the third, or Thanksgiving

Day. No, I don't know how much I drew on those days. The first time I

was in prison was in September. The next was sometime before Christmas, I can't remember the date. I was there thirty days. It was somewhere along in October. A year before that I was in prison too, about

thirty days. I have been in prison three times since I have been with the

pencil company. I have been in prison about three times within the last

three or four years. I have been in prison seven or eight times within the

last four or five years. I can't give you any of the dates, nor how long I

stayed there any of the times that I was there. I don't know what month

or what day it was, nor how long I stayed there. I knew the factory was

not going to be run on April 26th. Yes, Snowball and I drank beer together

sometimes in the building. Yes, we used to go down in the basement

and drink together, but he aint the only man. I never was drunk at

the factory. Snowball wasn't there the first Saturday I watched for Mr.

Frank. I think he laid off. I don't know whether he was there the second

or third Saturdays, I didn't see him Thanksgiving morning, but I

saw him the day before Thanksgiving. That was the time that Mr. Frank

told me to watch for him. He talked to me before Snowball. I don't

know whether Snowball was there in January when I watched. Snowball

was there in January in the box room when Mr. Frank told me to

watch for him. I don't know whether Mr. Frank knew he was there or

not. There were eight niggers in all working in the factory. Snowball, the fireman and me did just plain manual labor, the rest of the negroes had better jobs. Snowball, the fireman and I were the last negroes to get jobs there. We were the new darkies; the others had been working there before we went there. Mr. Frank used to laugh and jolly with me. I

couldn't tell you the first time he did this. Mr. Darley has seen him jollying

me. They would jolly me together. They would play and go on

around there with me. It has been so long ago I can't tell you any of the

jokes. Mr. Schiff and Mr. Holloway has seen him joking with me. He

would say, "Come on I am going to make a graveyard down there in the

basement if you don't hurry and bring that elevator back up here. " Mr.

Holloway heard him say that. Mr. Schiff has seen him playing with me.

He would goose me and punch me and tell me I was a good negro. I don't

remember anything else he said. Yes, Mr. Darley would goose me and

kick me a little bit, just playing with me. Mr. Schiff would crack jokes

with me. I don't remember the time. The time Mr. Frank came in the

elevator and told me about watching for him, he didn't know Snowball

was in there. Snowball was standing right there by me. Mr. Frank could

have seen him and he could have heard anything that was said. He saw

Snowball standing there, I have been at the factory over two years. I

don't remember the day or month I went there. It was some time in 1910.

I don't remember whether it was summer or winter. Miss Daisy Hopkins

worked on the fourth floor in 1912. I don't know when she quit. I

saw her working from June, 1912, up until about Christmas. Yes, I

worked on the same floor with her, I don't know whether she worked

there in 1913. Miss Daisy was a low lady, kind of heavy, and she was

pretty, low, chunky kind of heavy weight. I don't know what color hair

she had or eyes, or her complexion. She was light skinned. She looked

to be about twenty-three. I know she was there in June, because she gave me a note to take down to Mr. Schiff. I remember that because the note had June on it. Mr. Schiff said it had "June" on it when he read it. I can't read but he read that note and he read 'June something,'' it was on the outside of the note. It was on the back of the note. "June" was written on the back of that note. She wrote the note and folded it up

and he read "June" on the back of it and he laughed at it. The reason

I know she left the factory during Christmas because Mr. Dalton told

me she wasn't coming back. He told me that one Saturday coming down

to the factory. I never have seen Mr. Dalton except at the factory. No,

he doesn't work there. I saw him somewhere along in January. He came

out that time by himself. He and a lady had been down in the basement.

The last time I saw him the detectives brought him down at the station

house and asked if I had ever seen him in there. I saw Mr. Holloway at

the factory the first Saturday I watched for Mr. Frank. The next Saturday

I watched, he was sick and wasn't there. He was sick two Saturdays

in June. I disremember whether I saw Mr. Schiff and Mr. Darley. I remember seeing Mr. Darley at the factory on Thanksgiving Day. I don't

remember what time he left. I couldn't tell you anybody who came to

the factory the first Saturday I watched. The second time I think there

were some young ladies working up on the fourth floor. I don't know

about the third time. I don't know whether anybody was working there

Thanksgiving or not. I didn't see Mr. Schiff at all. I will swear that he

was not in the office with Mr. Frank. I don't know whether any ladies

were working there the next time or not. I have been back in the metal

department, but I never have been on the right-hand side where the" machines are. I have swept on the second floor, but not in the metal department. I don't know where those vats are back there. I don't know what you are talking about. I don't know anything about the plating room. I

never have been in Mr. Quinn's office. I have put disinfectants in the

ladies' and gentlemen's closets back there. I wouldn't go inside. I would

only go to the door. I stood outside of the door and sprinkled it in a little

way. Outside of that, and going to Mr. Quinn's office I have never been

on the left hand side of the factory. I have been there where they wash

the lead at, and I have stuck bills in Mr. Quinn's office. Yes, I have been

back in there where that dark place is. I don't know how many times I

have stacked some boxes back there. I have been back there three times

altogether. Sometime before Christmas. Yes, sir, you can see from the

top of the stairway back in there. I have been back there three times

altogether. Sometime before Christmas. Yes, sir; you can see from the

top of the stairway to Mr. Frank's inside office. A man sitting at Mr.

Frank's desk can see people coming up the stairway if he is watching for

them. If the safe door is open I don't hardly think he can see them. If

it is shut he can. I am certain of that. I thought you were talking about

the third floor. He couldn't see people coming up from the first floor. He

can see them after they get along by the clock. I left the factory 5:30

Friday afternoon, before the factory stopped. I think I punched when I

went out. One of them was ten minutes fast. That was the one on the

right, I left there without drawing my money because I knew I wasn't

going to draw but $2. 75 and I owed the watchman a dollar and I knowed

I wouldn't have enough for me and to pay him and I told Mr. Holloway

to let Snowball draw it for me. Snowball drew it for me and met me at

the shoe shop at the corner of Alabama and Forsyth Street. He gave me

$3. 75. I wasn't supposed to draw but $2. 75, and Mr. Frank taken that

dollar for the watchman and stuck an extra dollar in my envelope and that made $3. 75. I don't remember how many beers I drank Friday. Yes, I told Mr. Scott I got up at 9 o'clock that morning. That wasn't

true. I ate breakfast about seven. Yes, I told Mr. Black I ate at 9:30.

That wasn't true. I left my house between 7 and 7:30. I told Mr. Scott

I left somewhere between 10 and 10:30. No, that wasn't true. I got to

Peters Street about 25 minutes to 8. I don't know how long I stayed

there. Some things in my affidavit that I made that are true. Yes, there

are some things in my last affidavit that are true. I was arrested on the

first of May. I sent for Mr. Black to come down when I made my first

statement on May 18th. Yes, I denied I had been to the factory in that

statement. I made that statement in the detectives' office. Mr. Black

and Mr. Scott were present. They didn't question two or three hours. I

did some writing before then, before that statement was made. Yes, I

know I did some writing before May 18th. I did some writing in Chief's

office that Sunday. I told Black I bought whiskey on Peters Street at

about 10:30. I told them I paid forty cents for it. I don't remember telling

them that I bought the whiskey at 11 o'clock. Yes, I told them I went

into the Butt-In Saloon after I went to Earley's for the whiskey. Some

of it I told them was the truth and some of it wasn't. They asked me if I

was lying and I held my head down. I held back some of the truth, and

when they asked me if that was the truth I hung my head down. I didn't

want to give the man away, but I wanted to tell some and let him see what

I was going to do and see if he wasn't going to stick to his promise as he

had said. I told them I went into Butt-In Saloon and saw some negroes

at tables shooting dice and I won ninety cents and bought a glass of beer.

I told them that I went to three beer saloons. I told them after I went home at 2:30, I went to Joe Carr's saloon and got 15c. worth of beer. I don't remember telling them that I went there between 3:30 and four

o'clock. The detectives talked to me nearly every day after I made my

first statement. Sometimes hours at a time. No, they didn't cuss me.

Yes. I sent for Black on May 24th. When the statement came out in the

papers that's the time I sent for him. As to how I knew it came out in

the papers, I heard the boys across the street hollering extra papers. Mr.

Black came down after I sent for him and I told him it's awful hot in

here, and I told him I was going to tell him something, but I wasn't going

to tell him all of it now. I told him that I would tell him part and hold

part back. Scott and Black were both there. Yes, I told Mr. Black on

May 24th, the time I made the second statement, that I helped tote the

little girl. I sure remember that. I think I told them about Mr. Frank

getting me to watch for him, that he told me he struck a girl and for me

to go back and get her. I didn't give Mr. Frank clear away that time. I

kept some things back. I don't remember now whether I told them at

that time or not. I don't know whether I told them about going down

the basement or not. The first time I told them I wrote the notes on Friday.

They didn't tell me my story wouldn't fit. I don't remember them

telling me anything about changing my statement. I told them that was

all I had to say. They never told me they wanted me to tell anything

else. They didn't say anything to me that it didn't sound right. Mr.

Black talked to me right smart and Mr. Lanford talked to me a little. No,

they never talked to me a whole day. As to why I changed my statement

from Friday to Saturday, I put it on Saturday, because I was at the factory

on Saturday. As to why I didn't put myself there on Saturday, the

blame would be put on me. I didn't want them to know that I had written any notes for Mr. Frank. Yes, in that statement I told the officers I was going to tell the whole truth. I told them that I got up at nine

o'clock, because there was nothing doing at the factory that day at the

time I said I was there at nine o'clock, because he had done told me where

to meet him at. Yes, I told them that I was going to tell the whole truth.

Yes, the reason I told them I left home at 9 or 9:30, because there was

not anything doing at the factory at that time. I told them it was about

9 o'clock when I looked at the clock, because I don't know what time it

was when I looked at the clock, and I told them I had some steak and

some sausage for breakfast and a piece of liver and I drank some tea and

bread. Well, there was some sausage, but I don't know whether I ate it

or not. Yes, I had steak, liver and sausage for breakfast. I know I ate

the steak and a piece of liver, and drank a cup of tea and ate some bread.

I got up that morning at six o'clock. Yes, I told the officers I got up at 9

or 9:30. I don't remember anything else I told them. Yes, I told them

that I went straight to Peters Street and went in the first beer saloon

there, and drank two beers and gave a fellow a beer, that had a whip

around his neck. I told them three saloons and I called two names. I

don't know whether I told them about this whiskey or not. I told them

I bought it between 10 and 10:30. No, that is not true. I told them that

on account of my saying I didn't leave home until about 9 or 9:30. I

bought it about a quarter to eight. The reason I told these lies about the

time was because I didn't want to put myself at the factory twice, because

there wasn't anything doing at the factory that morning. That is

the only reason I told that story. I don't know when the first time was I

told them I got there at 8 o'clock instead of 10 or half past, it was after I

got out of jail up there. I guess I made most of these changes after I got

out of jail. I don't know who the detective was I told about my not leaving home at 9 o'clock. Four of them were talking to me, all at the same time. I think it was Starnes and Campbell that I told that to, about

changing the time. I don't remember whether I told them then that I

was going to tell the whole truth. I told them that after I got out of jail,

after I got back to headquarters. If you tell a story you know you've got

to change it. A lie won't work, and you know you've got to tell the whole

truth. Yes, I knew it was bound to come when I told it the first time. I

didn't tell the whole truth then, because I didn't want to give the whole

thing away then. In the statement where I told about my moving the little

girl for Mr. Frank, the reason why I didn't correct it then about the

time I bought the liquor, I don't know whether I did it then or not, but I

did tell them. I told them I drank four or five beers that morning. I told

them at the first saloon I bought two beers. I didn't tell them I bought

any wine at that time. I told them I had some wine put in my beer. What

they call wine. It wasn't any wine though. I don't know whether I told

them that in the statement I made about moving the little girl or not.

The wine was put in my beer at Mr. Earl's beer saloon on Saturday morning. I told that to Mr. Black and Mr. Scott, I don't remember when. As to my not testifying about that yesterday, you didn't ask me that. I remember telling you that yesterday. I remember saying I didn't buy any

wine. No, I didn't say anything about putting beer in wine yesterday,

but I remember I said something about putting wine in beer. I know I

told you that yesterday. I don't remember telling them I started straight

from Peters Street to Capital City Laundry. I told them I started for the

laundry after leaving Mr. Frank at the factory. If they have got it down

there, I must have said so. I don't remember saying it. I told them I

met Mr. Frank at the corner of Nelson and Forsyth Street before I went to the factory. Yes, I told them I went from Peters Street and met him at the corner of Nelson and Forsyth before I went to the factory. As to

why I told them that story because I did meet him there. No, I didn't go

straight from Peters Street to meet him at the corner of Nelson and Forsyth

as I told them. I went straight from Peters Street to the pencil factory.

I don't remember when the first time I told the truth about it. I

told it either to Mr. Starnes, Mr. Campbell, Mr. Black or Mr. Scott. I

told it after I got out of jail, I remember telling the officers when he said

"Ah, ha," when I met him at the corner. I don't remember telling the

officers that he asked me where I was going and I told him I was going to

the Capital City Laundry to see my mother. I don't remember saying

that to the officers. If I did say that it was not the truth. As to why I

lied about that because I did tell Mr. Frank down there when I left the

factory that I was going to see my mother. I told the officers he stayed

at Montag's about 20 minutes. I did tell you yesterday that I didn't have

any idea how long he stayed there because I haven't any idea now. As to

why I didn't say yesterday that it was 20 minutes, because you didn't ask

me. I didn't tell Mr. Dorsey how long it was because he didn't ask me

what I told detectives about it, but I told detectives that. I told them that

story because I didn't have any idea how long he stayed there. I don't

know how long Mr. Frank stayed there. I told the officers 20 minutes as

that was the best I could do about it, so I just told him 20 minutes. I

told the detectives about wanting me to watch for him when I got back to

the factory. I don't know why I didn't tell them that at the time I told

them about moving the body. I don't remember who I told it to or when,

but I told them. I did tell them about Mr. Frank stamping his foot. I don't know whether I told them at the time I told about helping move the

body. I told it to Mr. Scott, Mr. Black, Mr. Campbell, Mr. Starnes and

Mr. Dorsey. Mr. Starnes and Mr. Campbell wasn't in there sometimes

when I told it. No, I didn't tell it to Mr. Scott and Mr. Black. They

dropped the case and Mr. Starnes and Mr. Campbell taken it up. They

came down and was talking to me for a month or more in my cell. Yes, I

told Mr. Black about Frank stomping his foot and Mr. Scott. I told them

all about it. Yes, I told the detectives that the first party I saw going up

the factory after I got back from Montag's was Miss Mattie Smith. That

was a mistake. I didn't see Mr. Darley go up after I got back from Montag's. No, I didn't say yesterday that I saw him go up after I got back

from Montag's. I don't know whether Mr. Darley saw me or not. I was

sitting right there at the box. He could have seen me if he had looked, so

could Miss Mattie Smith. The rest of them could have seen me if they

had looked. Yes, I told the officers the first time I saw them go up was

after I got back from Montag's. That was not so. I was just mistaken

about it. Don't know when I corrected the mistake or to whom. Yes, I

stated it to Mr. Dorsey. It was after I came from jail. I have corrected

it to Mr. Starnes and Mr. Campbell too. It was about 11:30 when Mr.

Darley left the factory, right after we got back from Montag's. It may

have been about 11 o'clock. Miss Mattie Smith left the factory somewhere

about 9:30. It was after we got back from Montag's that I saw Mr.

Darley leave. Mr. Holloway and the peg-legged negro went upstairs and

came down before Mr. Darley left the factory. They could have seen me

sitting on the box, as they came out the factory. Mr. Holloway left about

10 or 15 minutes after Mr. Darley left. It may have been four or five minutes. After Mr. Holloway left, I told them Mr. Quinn came in. I may

have told them that a lady dressed in green was the next one. That

wasn't true. A lady in green did go up before Mr. Darley came down.

She came down before Holloway and Darley left. If I told the officers

that she went up after they left, I made a mistake. Mr. Quinn was the

next man that went up after Mr. Holloway came down. Yes, I said that

yesterday. Yes, I said yesterday Mr. Quinn was the last man I saw come

down. No, I didn't say yesterday Miss Monteen Stover came down after

Mr. Quinn came down. I might have told the officers that I saw Mr. Holloway return upstairs, turn to the right toward Hunter Street and go in

the factory. If I did, I made a mistake. I don't remember all the mistakes

I made. No, I have never told about a lady going up there after

them six or seven minutes, I was mistaken. I don't know whether I have

ever corrected that mistake or not. She went upstairs and Mr. Quinn

went up and came down before she did. If I told the officers she stayed

there 7 or 8 minutes and came right down, I made a mistake. I don't

think I corrected that mistake at all. I don't know how long it was after

she came down before anybody else went up and down. If I told the officers it was 10 or 15 minutes that was a mistake. I don't think I corrected

that mistake at all. I haven't got any idea at all how long before the lady

in green came down that anybody else went up. Yes, I told Mr. Scott and

Mr. Black that the only people who went up at all were Miss Mattie

Smith, Darley, Holloway and the woman in green, and nobody went up

and down until Mr. Frank whistled. No, that wasn't true. The reason

why I told that story was because I didn't want them to know that these

other people passed by me, for they might accuse me. The reason why I

didn't tell them was because I didn't want people to think that I was the

one that done the murder. I told them that I saw those four men go up because I didn't think they saw me sitting there, and I didn't tell of seeing the other people for fear they would report on me. The reason why I

told the police about those four going up there, because that is all I could

remember that went up and down. I don't know when my memory got

fresher about other people going up and down. I think it was after I got

out of jail. I think I corrected that with Mr. Starnes, Mr. Campbell and

Mr. Dorsey, at police headquarters. After I corrected with the detectives

down at headquarters, they took me to Mr. Dorsey's office. I have been

in Mr. Dorsey's office three times. Mr. Dorsey was down at headquarters

with me I think about four times. As to whether it took Mr. Dorsey about

seven times to get my testimony straight, it didn't take him that long to

get it straight, it took that long for me. As to why I didn't tell it all, I

didn't want to tell it all. I was intending to hold back some. I didn't want

to tell it all right at one time. I just told a little and kept back a little.

Yes, and Mr. Dorsey went down seven times while I was telling some and

holding back some. They didn't ask me to take back any stories. No, it

didn't take Mr. Dorsey seven times to tell the story. Yes, I said I added

to it every time he went down. But he wouldn't came back and try to do

anything with it. I didn't tell the officers that I went to a moving picture

show after I left the factory. I said I looked at the pictures from the

outside. I told them I went on Peters Street and looked at the pictures

from the outside. I stayed there about ten or fifteen minutes. I drank

two glasses of beer. I don't know whether it was in the first, second or

third statement that I told about watching for Mr. Frank. Two of the

detectives were there. Yes, I locked the front door that Saturday of the

murder. I don't know what time. It was somewhere after dinner. I can't give you any estimate. It was later than 12 o'clock. It wasn't one

o'clock, because it was four minutes to one after I went upstairs and came

downstairs and unlocked the door. Yes, I heard the stamping before I

locked the door, and I heard the scream before I heard the stamping. After

he stamped for me I went and locked the door. I couldn't tell to save

my life how long the door stayed locked. I was upstairs between the time

I locked the door and the time I went down and unlocked it. I unlocked

the door before I went upstairs. I locked the door when he stamped and

I unlocked it when he whistled. As soon as he whistled I unlocked the

door and went upstairs. Mr. Frank sent me back in the metal department.

He wouldn't go back there with me. When he whistled that was

the signal for me to unlock the door and the stamping was for me to unlock

the door. He showed me how to lock the door that day. He showed

me how to lock the door on Thanksgiving Day too. I don't know how he

came to show it to me again. I guess he thought I forgot it. When I went

down to leave the door were unlocked, both doors were unlocked. The

only thing I remember Mr. Frank telling me was not to let Mr. Darley

see me around the door, that a young lady would be up there after awhile

to chat, and he wanted me to watch for him. No, he didn't tell me what

he wanted me to meet him at Nelson and Forsyth Street for. Yes, I could

have come back to the factory just as well as going to meet him at Nelson

and Forsyth Street if he had told me that. I don't know why he told me

to meet him at Nelson and Forsyth. I don't remember telling the officers

that I met him accidentally at Nelson and Forsyth Street. Mr. Frank

stayed at Montag's about an hour. Mr. Frank went to Montag's between

10 and 10:30 and stayed about an hour. I guess it was about a half an

hour. Mr. Frank didn't say a thing about why he wanted me at the corner of Nelson and Forsyth Street. Before we went to Montag's he said he didn't want me to say anything to Mr. Darley that there was going to

be a young lady there after a while, and he told me that again after we

came back from Montag's. Mr. Frank gave me the signal about stamping

and whistling on Thanksgiving Day and he repeated it again that

day. I told yesterday how he done it, like I am telling now. I think I am

telling the truth now. We had been back from Montag's about five minutes

when the lady in the green dress went up. She stayed up there a

good little while, ten or fifteen minutes. I didn't tell the officers the peg-legged negro went up first. I didn't tell them in the first statement. I

may have told them in the next statement. The peg-legged negro didn't

stay upstairs no time. Came back down with Mr. Holloway. Mr. Darley

came down five or ten minutes after Mr. Holloway came down. Yes,

that was after he came back from Montag's. I have no idea what time it

was. After Holloway came down, the lady with the green dress came

down. She went on out and Mr. Quinn came in. He went up and came

down before Monteen Stover came in and before Mary Phagan came in.

Yes, I am certain of that. No one else came in after Mr. Quinn except

Mary Phagan. Mr. Quinn, Monteen Stover and Mary Phagan went in

almost the same time. They went and came out almost together. Quinn

first, Mary Phagan next and Monteen Stover next. Mr. Quinn had already

come out of the factory when Mary Phagan went up. I didn't see

Mrs. Barrett, or Miss Corinthia Hall or Miss Hattie Hall or Alonzo Mann,

or Emma Clarke. I didn't see none of them. I never saw Mrs. White go

in there at all that day. I was sitting on the box all the time. I got up

twice to make water. I made water against the elevator door, right in

front of the elevator shaft. Miss Stover had done gone then, and Mr.

Quinn also. I went to sleep after Miss Monteen Stover came down. Don't know how long I was asleep, maybe ten or fifteen minutes. I heard the scream before I went to sleep, before Monteen Stover ever went in there. Mr. Quinn had already gone. I told the officers I didn't see Mary Phagan go up at all. I didn't tell them I heard any scream. I don't know when I first told that story. I told Mr. Starnes and Mr. Campbell. That was

after I got out of jail. I said I heard the scream before I went to sleep,

which I did. Monteen Stover came up and went down before I went to

sleep. I told Mr. Starnes and Mr. Campbell about somebody running

back on tiptoes. I don't know when I told them. He woke me up stamping,

then I locked the door, and went to the box and kicked on the side of

the elevator door. It was about ten or fifteen minutes after he stamped

'hat I heard him whistle. When he whistled I unlocked the door. I don't

know when I first told about Mr. Frank standing at the top of the stairs,

trembling and nervous. I told Mr. Dorsey, Mr. Starnes and Campbell. I

don't know why I didn't tell it the day I told them I was going to tell the

whole truth. I didn't mean to keep back anything then. That day I told

them everything I remembered. When I got to the top of the stairs, Mr.

Frank had that cord in his hands. I don't remember when I first told

about that. If I didn't tell it that day when I said I was telling the whole

truth, I just didn't remember it. When I told Black and Scott that I was

telling the whole truth I didn't say anything about Mr. Frank having hit

the little girl. I thought I had told them that. I have told that to some

of the officers. I remember now that I told them that. He told me to get

her out of there some way or other. He didn't say she was dead. I didn't

know she was dead. I went back there and found the cord around her neck. When I looked at the clock it was four minutes to one. That was after I went and seen the girl was dead, and he told me to bring her up there. I was standing at the steps. I could see the clock from there.

Then I went back and got a piece of striped bed tick, something like your

shirt there, had whitish looking stripes on it. I taken the cloth and spread

it down and rolled the little girl in the cloth and tied it up. When I laid

her down in the cloth, I tied the cloth around her. I did my best. Her

feet were hanging out of the cloth, also her head. If I didn't tell Black

and Scott anything about the hat and the slippers and the ribbon, they

must not have asked me. I know I took the things and pitched them in

front of the boiler. The elevator don't hit hard when it hits the ground.

The wheels at the top don't make any noise. The motor makes a little

noise, something like a June bug. The elevator hits the dirt at the bottom,

but it don't make any noise. I left the factory about 1:30. The reason

why I didn't tell Scott and Black before I wrote four notes instead of

two, they didn't ask me how many I wrote. Another reason why is, because

Mr. Frank taken that and folded it up like he wasn't going to use

it. I wrote three notes on white and one on green paper. The green one

is the one he folded up like he wasn't going to use it. I don't know how

long it took me to write those notes. I took me somewhere about two

minutes and a half, I reckon. The reason I didn't tell Scott and Black

about burning the body, because someone had done taken them off the

case. Mr. Scott told me. The first time I told that was to Mr. Starnes

and Mr. Campbell after I came back from jail. I don't remember telling

the officers that Mr. Frank told me he was going to send those notes to

his folks up North. If they have got it down there I must have said it.

He told me he was going to write to his mother and tell her that I was a good negro. The reason I didn't take the parasol down with the shoes, it was too far back for me to see it. I got my hair cut last week. My lawyer sent the barber. They gave me a bath and bought me clean clothes. My wife gave me my shirt. I didn't read any newspapers on Monday about this crime. It don't do me no good because I can't make any out. I didn't try to read any that day. I washed that shirt on Thursday, May 1st, in the metal room about half past one or two. As to how that dung

came to be in the elevator shaft when Mr. Frank had explained to me

where he wanted to meet me and just as I started out of the place that

negro drayman came in there with a sack of hay and I gave him a drink

of whiskey that I bought at Earley's saloon on Peters Street that morning,

and he suggested that I go down in the basement and do it, there's a

light down there, and I went down the ladder and stopped right by the

side of the elevator, in front of the elevator, somewhere about the edges

of it. No, I didn't see the two white men go up and talk to Mr. Frank in

his office that day. No, I didn't see a man by the name of Mincey at the

corner of Carter and Electric Avenue that day. I didn't tell him that I

killed a girl that day. I didn't say I killed one today and I didn't want

to kill another. I didn't tell Harlee Branch that Mary Phagan was murdered

in the toilet room on the second floor, or that the body was stiff

when I got back there, or that it took at least thirty minutes to get the

body down stairs and write the notes. I don't remember telling Miss

Carson on May 1st, that Mr. Frank was innocent. I didn't have any conversation with Miss Mary Pirk on April 28th and she didn't say that I

committed the crime and I didn't shoot out of the room immediately after

she said that I didn't tell Miss Carson on Monday that I was drunk all day Saturday. I didn't see her at all on Monday. I didn't tell Mr. Herbert Schiff on Monday that I was afraid to go on the street, that I would

give a million dollars if I was a white man. I said if I was a white man I

would go on out. I didn't say nothing about no million dollars because I

don't know what it takes to make a million. I didn't ask Miss Small on

Monday what the extra had in it and I didn't say Mr. Frank is just as innocent as you are. I didn't ask Miss Fuss on Wednesday for an extra, I

didn't tell her that I thought Mr. Frank was as innocent as the angels in

heaven.

RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.

I never was in jail until April 26th. I have been down at police headquarters several times. First time I was arrested was for throwing

rocks. I was a small boy then. I was arrested another time for fighting

black boys, then I was arrested about drinking and disorderly, and the

last time I was arrested was about fighting again. I never have fought

with a white man or white woman. Police officers took me down to jail

and to door where Mr. Frank was. I never did see Mr. Frank in jail. The

last time I saw Mr. Frank was in the station house before I had talked.

He looked at me and smiled and bowed his head. While I was writing

the notes, Mr. Frank took the pencil out of my hand and told me to rub

out that "a" I had down there on the word "negro. " I saw Mary Phagan's

pocketbook, or mesh bag, in Mr. Frank's office after he got back

from the basement. It was lying on his desk. He taken it and put it in

the safe. When I went back to see about the girl, it wouldn't have taken

more than about a minute to go down and lock and unlock the door. He

had time enough to do it. Mr. Scott talked to me about three hours and

a half one Thursday. Mr. Frank told me he would send me away from here if they caught me. He would get me out on bond and send me away. I never saw Mincey before seeing him at the station house in Mr. Lanford's office. I had orders from Mr. Frank to write down how many

boxes we needed and give it to him. I didn't tell Mr. Black or Mr. Scott

about the mesh bag because they didn't ask me. I disremember when I

first told about it. I think it was after I was in jail. I told Mr. Dorsey

about it after I came out of jail. Mr. Frank knew for a whole year that

I could write. I used to write for him the word "Luxury," "George

Washington," "Magnolia," "Uncle Remus," "Thomas Jefferson,"

that's the name of pencils. I spell " I Uncle Remus" " O-n-e Rines. " I

spell "Luxury" I ' L-u-s-t-r-i-s. " I spell " I Thomas Jefferson" " T-o-m

Je-f-f- or J-e-i-s-s. " I spell "George Washington" "J-o-e W-i-s-ht-

o-n. " After Mr. Frank found out what I meant he understood it. I

spell "ox" "o-x. " Yes I wrote him orders to take money out of my

wages. The pocketbook was a wire looking whitish looking pocketbook,

had a chain to it. You could take it and fold it up and hold it in one hand.

When I wrote the word "Luxury" and "Thomas Jefferson," I didn't

have anything at all to copy from. I was writing it down for Mr. Frank.

MRS. J. A. WHITE, recalled for the State.

I have seen this man before at police headquarters (indicating Conley) about a month after the murder. At that time I did not identify him

as being the man I saw sitting on the box. The man sitting on the box

was about the same size as Jim Conley. I couldn't state it was Jim Conley.

He was sitting in a dark place, and he looked black to me. He had

on dark clothes. I don't know whether he was bareheaded or not. I told

Bass Rosser about this on May 7th. That was the first time I told of it.

CROSS EXAMINATION.

I told the detective about this as soon as I saw one. I never kept it

a secret from anybody. I spoke to Mr. Wade Campbell about seeing the

darkey. I didn't tell him that I saw the negro as I went up into the factory

about 12 o'clock. I didn't tell him that, when I came down the steps

the last time, I didn't see anybody.